India’s Startup Communities need to be concatenated

// October 18th, 2008 // Business, Entrepreneurship, India, Life, Startups, The Ecosystem

I write this post in response to the post “The Startup WorkForce : A Proposal to the Community” by Vijay Anand which he has published here & here and the comments on the post by various people on both the blogs.

This post is going to have two aspects to it.

Addressing the point of discussion, i.e. growing the Startup workforce in quantity & quality.
The other facet basically is about the bigger picture, viz. the need of a well-knit ecosystem that needs to exist in the country, which is the universal set containing the problem under the scanner.

Who to hire?

Now, if you’ve read, Vijay’s post talks about how to go about building up a flow of skilled workforce which can join startups and give them some fruitful returns. Now, what is the kind of employees that a startup looks for. Startups should definitely be aversive towards candidates who require spoon-feeding. The reason behind this is that a startup needs people who can think and act, rather than those who need to be instructed and taken from one step to another carefully. I would list out a few characteristics of a candidate who could be a prospective employee for a startup:

Initiative-taker & go-getter
The candidate should have the keeda in him to take the unusual or unconventional path/approach to solve a problem.
Enthusiastic
Not to mention, this is something even conglomerates or bigger established firms would look out for, but is like a basic requirement for a startup employee.
Multi-faceted multitasker
This is important. A startup generally has lack of resources. If you hire a programmer who can also do some decent Photoshop or make a sales pitch or handle a logistical issue, when required, it is always going to be a boon for you.

Freshers or Experienced?

Let us consider the employment of freshers. Like Vijay mentioned in his comment, around 20% freshers in a college are smart enough to learn. The question is not whether they are smart enough to learn. The question is whether they are smart enough and have a will to learn on their own, which I would estimate to be around 3-4%(this again depends on the institute they are in). I do not say the remaining segment of the 20% are unemployable, but a employee-crunched startup that is doing some first stage recruitment, I would estimate these 3-4% go-getters to be the most prospective candidates. What Rajesh mentioned, may be vaguely matched to what I just said.

Deepak adds to this here, that with the recessions and the economic downslide, there is going to be a lot of experienced folks flocking out, who would be game towards working with a startup; then why do we need freshers?? My answer to this would be:

Demand-Supply Mismatch
Experience is really valuable to a startup, but one thing that needs to be noticed is that like the experienced folks are growing, even the number of startups are exponentially growing. I bet there are hordes of startups who are not part of any of the various communities and hence untapped of when we sit down to count all of them, and they very much exceed the number of those who are present in the communities. So, there is a demand-supply mismatch heavier on the demands side, which needs to be met. So along with some experienced Einstiens we need loads of young energetic Wright Brothers as well.
Thriving in a cash-crunch
Also, a majority of the startups are generally in a cash-crunch; some waiting to be funded and some against the idea of it. So cost of employment is a very determining factor in the startup’s hiring policy. And hiring able freshers after they’ve got the top-brass/core team, is undeniably the approach to meet their requirements at costs they can afford.

The problem at bay

The gist of the problem highlighted by Vijay is the lack of supply in comparision to the demand. We can rather look at it this way: There is sufficient supply, but there is no medium to deliver it to the demand end and join the dots. The solution offered by Vijay is a community-based collaborative training solution. The advantages are already mentioned in Vijay’s post. The problems with this approach are listed below:

Like Alok mentioned, Vyaas mentioned & Krish mentioned time is a very highly constrained resource for an entrepreneur or a startup employee. In such a case, sustaining with this method of creating the training system doesn’t seem to be a very possible prospect, unless there are high monetary returns to it, which I shall write about in detail not sooner than the end of this bullet list.
A very complex problem pointed out by Deepak is the internal disharmony that will exist even if the community-based solution is pulled off. This internal harmony will be born due to a competition among the startups to hire the best. Which is something that indicates short lifespan for such a community. We don’t want to build a community which we know is not going to sustain cohesively.

In Alok’s above mentioned comment, he has pointed out the possibility of doing this with a business model. Taking this up as a business model is not a bad option actually, and if well improvised, its a highly untapped opportunity. But, I feel the business would only thrive and grow if it strikes chord with the community and invokes healthy community engagement. One problem the business might face is the unwillingness of college students that fall in the said 20% (i.e. the majority of the trainees which the business or rather, the whole concept is going to target) to get trained by this new unknown organisation. The business primarily needs to focus on breaking this barrier while in its early stages.

The Gulf

Vijay has very rightly said in one of his comments the need to create a gulf between startups and the workforce. I am completely game with this concept because this, very importantly, ensures that only the enthusiastic go-getters would be able to get to you. So creating the gulf may even be looked at as an elimination process. The best thing about creating the gulf is it would increase the value of the jobs created in the startup ecosystem and also ensure that they are taken up by people who have had the sustainability to cross the gulf. The only thing that needs to be ensured is that this gulf doesn’t become too large or doesn’t contain too many obstacles. There has to exist a perfect blend of layoffs which should only shoo away the incritical mass and attracts the critical mass.

An Alternate Solution(my 2 dimes)

The communities existing in various forms in India to complement Startups & Entrepreneurship are well-scattered and unevenly concentrated. Some of the communities that exist are highly engaging and valued and some of the others are shaping up pretty well while the others have just taken their babysteps. This may be termed as the beginning of formation of very nascent & decentralised Startup Ecosystems across the country. In my observation, some of the places where we can say dependable ecosystems have started forming (in lowering order) are Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Delhi, Ahmedabad, apart from others which like I said are taking babysteps. If we want something to really happen, it should be the introduction of solubility of the communities among each other. They need to be gelled up, so that they can grow together. According to me, the training solution is supposed to be a subset of the larger problem of effectively connecting the community over the country.

What I propose is that instead of setting up a training community offline, grow a budding community online. Mind it, by growing the community online I don’t mean setting up just another Google/Yahoo group & asking everyone to join it. This approach will give you just another discussion group where people will thrive to ask questions that would land in the inboxes of people. And unless you have a gmail account, it will get flooded. What I am talking about is a custom web application that we can create for the community in India, which can streamline processes by implementing known and tested solutions like Q&A and Professional Networking, and develop a very simplicised job application that can help connect employers to prospective employees. I know on the surface of it, it looks like ‘just-another’ type of an idea. But I have a lot in mind, which could actually be a step towards improvising an amazing network in India. I am not asking for another job site to be created. It is rather an online ecosystem I have in mind for the country, which I expect to not only take care of workforce, but other aspects like connecting other relevant dots, letting people know of events happening all over India, etc. I know there are sites that exist to do some of this, but I want to make something different. Something that eases out stuff for all members of the ecosystem. Puts things on platter and serves it to them.

The crux of the whole thing doesn’t lie in making the online solution. That should just act as a support system to what the actual solution is. What is more important, is the necessity to grow the various communities in India, to do which I have lots of ideas cluttered in mind, which I want to refine myself. And not only grow them, but connect relevant dots and create a larger community that is more reliable and reflects a high level of cohesiveness from within. This refinement of ideas can happen only with your participation and discussion. I expect some of the experienced guys around to participate and maybe we can pull off a step that can create an amazing platform.

I expect comments about the whole lot of words I have posted above and about what you think can be done on an online community building website for the startup ecosystem.

Notes:

Due to my impatience to post this and the growing length of the post, the post might have missed out on some quality and proper conveying of ideas. I urge the experienced guys and the veteran players to evolve over my idea. Let us discuss this over, refine it and streamline it.
I am game towards building this application, but before that I shall wait for the various inputs. People interested in helping with development, UI, process refinement, ideas are welcome to contact me.

11 Responses to “India’s Startup Communities need to be concatenated”

Jignesh Gohel says:

October 18, 2008 at 17:17

i have read article posted by sanjay, this is such a wonderful idea, i have read all your comment and points raised by you. your suggestion is really helpful.
thanks for sharing
Paul says:

October 18, 2008 at 18:13

First off talk about training is not the right way. This is not the way followed in the west. What is needed is a place where programmers can come together and share information like a kolkata adda ,low budget places with computer and where people can sit for hours and share ,and learn.

Training in india sucks. In the 1990 we had mass training institutes like Apple and Niit which dished out people with half baked skills. Their skill where half baked because
1) The training had no industry experience (also remember a good programmer does not make that person a good trainer).
2) The interaction ,course material and computer time was limited
3) Some places made student code on paper (no debugging etc)

People should stop looking to make money out of every single idea this would help in the long term. Addas->Good programmers->Cutting Edge dev->Revenue come….
Kunal says:

October 18, 2008 at 20:24

Mitesh, Will you join a startup for less pay/long hours/no equity?

given an option to join a startup and an established company what would ur choice be?

how many ppl would join i would really like to know…

Cheers
Mitesh Ashar says:

October 18, 2008 at 22:55

@Paul:
This post is not about replicating methodologies of the West. I agree the Addas happening in Kolkata are a good way to to implement a community… But, since the last 6 weeks can you tell me what has been the states of the OCC kAddas?
It is very important to bring in an element of sustainability in the communities that are being formed all over India. And like I said in the post, this is about the bigger picture. Joining the communities is what I am trying to highlight as a necessity.

@Kunal:
The company I am working for may not be termed as a startup. It is a 5 year old company which has crossed the phase. But I am not really getting a whopping figure. To be frank, I am getting a very low amount. Kunal, you are on a very senior position and I feel you are somehow missing out the viewpoint of a fresher.
Why do you think I am sticking with my current job, when I know I can get better in the bigger companies?
I have been allotted a project that is completely to myself, I have done the back-end design completely, am through with the functionalities & now I am working on the UI. And believe me, I have a lot of flexibility compared to my friends who work in Capgemini or Mastek, etc. Although I do miss out on learning how the bigger companies work, but I identify that my learning curve here is certainly steeper than those larger companies, and hence I am happy to stay back.
This is what the section Freshers v/s Experienced in my above post addresses. The freshers who are open towards a lower salary for a steeper learning curve and a higher level of exposure, definitely think in that direction because they see it in a long-term view. And that is why we come to a figure of as low as 3-4% of freshers suiting startups.
Another way we can look at this, Kunal, is the gulf. This may be a very nice gulf-creating element which can be improvised upon. Startups don’t anyways need the software engineers who don’t understand what they are doing. Believe me, a majority of my batchmates working in bigger companies like Accenture, Infosys, etc. have learnt some of their actual software stuff in their company trainings and still thrive to pass the company tests. They’re useless for startups. Startups need people who can self-train themselves. I hope u get my point.
Vijay says:

October 19, 2008 at 8:44

Wow. This almost looks like a paper on the topic. Very nicely put together summaries, and then appending it with your thoughts. Well done mitesh.

I think Paul has a point. If we had an idea like the barcamp concept, would we have let it go for free or would we be trying to monetize that too? would we be worried that barcamps/communities cant be sustained since there is no financial motive?

Communities rock. And Thats where civilizations were born, and thats where the next startup culture in india has to be born. The single parent concept of a trainer-trainee wont work – especially if you want to create a robust workforce, I think.
Paul says:

October 19, 2008 at 10:53

Hi Mithesh

OCC kAddas? I have no idea ? From what i see on the google groups those places are empty. Why? One of the reason is the right mix of people who can instill enthusiasm.A community life of community depends on the people of their community. If the community has enthu user but those user are not welcoming to outsider this community would die a slow death. Now how many of the occ communities have member who can really really spare their time to spread the word /network and make the community stronger? The time between two posts show how many dedicated members a community has.Just like twitter (compare with plurk)

Quote “It is very important to bring in an element of sustainability in the communities ”
I agree with what vijay has said “The single parent concept of a trainer-trainee wont work”

Are you saying that the FOSS initiative and linux/drupal projects are not sustainable or those members need something else to be sustainable? I remember Microsoft saying the same thing a couple of years ago.

If you look to the programmers in Europe they thrive on information sharing online and offline none of them go to class like computer programming course (A lot of them do study computer science).

A computer programming course would backfire if the students do not get their value for their money. And with social media the news would spread like wildfire .Would you find really really good committed trainers? Computer programming has to be an ongoing process it cannot be limited to 1-6 months.

There are ways to have a low cost adda(I am not talking about occ as I have not see much happening there. The low cost adda is the coffee places in kolkata (big area ,lots of like minded people , lots of chatter and info sharing) a place where you are not told to leave like places in mumbai.The only difference this place would be filled with computer and enthu members who know how to channel the initiative in the right direction without leader/mods/visionaries this place would end in chaos.
A place where a kid can come and assemble his own computer , install linux and code with mentors ready to share and learn.
Startup says:

October 19, 2008 at 15:17

Mitesh,
Nice one.But if you see in any of the groups, many of the members in such groups are good for sending mails.Believe me,if you ask people to join a startup,very few of them would be willing to do the same.
So,first thing is join a startup with a low salary and see if you can sustain else such groups just become nice meeting points for networking and self-publicity tools.The point is “To figure out how many of the crowd are really interested in (joining/working for)startups other than talking for them
What is your take on this?

PS:I am an OCC member and I have experienced this myself.
Nikhil Kulkarni says:

October 19, 2008 at 19:29

I see a lot of criticism in the comments – we may have our point’s of view, but I am sure none of us can say what the exact solution is! And that does not make Mitesh’s own suggestion any less significant.

@ Mitesh – I think it would be worth a try to actually start such a community portal. And this is not a completely new idea, some such efforts have been done in past have had success, albeit limited. For example jobsokplease started by Rashmi Bansal or helloIntern started by a couple of IITB grads.

My suggestion to you would be to GO FOR IT – am sure it won’t take much time to throw together a couple of lines of code to kick the thing off and throw a test for users thereafter. Don’t wait for people to suggest new ideas – just go through existing similar concepts, brainstorm with some of your close friends and start developing.
Mitesh Ashar says:

October 21, 2008 at 0:21

@Vijay
Definitely communities rock, and I owe a lot to the communities I have been a part of to have my current direction of thought or whatever little understanding I have about so many various things.
My focus here is not monetization. It is about creating a community or social network online that can act as a virtual ecosystem for India.

@Vijay @Paul
And as far as sustainability is concerned, what is the definition of sustainability? According to me, for a community, sustainability is all about ensuring consistent quality and consistent participation. Maintaining both in such an open community is really the role of a few key people in the community who can actually drive the whole community, not by commanding, but by mutual moderation. And mind it, maintaining these sounds much easier than it is.

@Paul
I am not sure what your impression about the addas in Kolkata are. But being one the initiators of the addas, as far as I know, the quality is good but the participation is fading out. Again, this is due to (i) scarcity of critical mass & (ii) hence, lack of bandwidth.

@Startup
I pretty much agree with you regarding realising how many people are actually interested in joining. But, that is what this post is all about, isn’t it. This post is a continuation of Vijay’s post about having better startup-oriented training through a community method to increase this number of people interested in startups.

@Nikhil
Thanks for pointing out on Rashmi’s & the HelloIntern initiative.
I feel the same and I am game about developing such a portal.
I am just trying to refine ideas & features and this post and its comments are really helpful in doing that.
Paul says:

October 21, 2008 at 11:01

Hi Mitesh

Quote “I am not sure what your impression about the addas in Kolkata are”
I am referring to coffee houses where people sit for hours talking politics not the OCC tech ones. I really do not know about the OCC ones but do you who where the original pioneers .So these thoughts are out of the box not related to existing processes.

Quote “Maintaining both in such an open community is really the role of a few key people in the community who can actually drive the whole community, not by commanding, but by mutual moderation.”

I totally agree with you on this . A community is grown by empowering the members .And no easy task ,I have seen many communities die out or become inactive due to top down hierarchies and complex management structures.

Quote “as far as I know, the quality is good but the participation is fading out. ”
Though my previous post was speaking in general ,I was studying some OCC google groups and comparing the activity today compared to a year ago when the original founders were active.

Quote “Again, this is due to (i) scarcity of critical mass & (ii) hence, lack of bandwidth.”
Good points. Critical mass on a community IMHO is driven by the enthusiasm of the existing members .your views..

One the point of lack of bandwidth I disagree the best example is the thriving communities of Usenet since 1979
http://www.giganews.com/usenet-history/index.html

looking back at all the successful start ups we can see it was started by a group of people who were passionate about their idea and stuck to their guns.

So please take these interaction on the comments as just brainstorming.IMHO bouncing ideas off others just widens your idea scope and also streamlines the idea .
tej says:

October 24, 2008 at 8:14

mitesh – the idea of a glue for scattered communities is a good one. it remains to be seen how it’ll be different from the existing tools that are available for communities (ning for example). imho, it is not the lack of tools, but the will to work together that needs an impetus…

best way to foster cooperation is to start at the grassroots… and when a few shining examples of partnering emerge, and there are testimonials about it…. people will start to take notice.

The Randomness of Randomness